E23: Key Strategies to Legally Secure Your Business | Scott Reib
Is your business as protected as you think it is?
Join me and my business attorney Scott Reib as we break down the essential legal steps every business owner needs to have in place to protect your brands and secure long-term success.
We’ll dive into everything from trademarks and copyrights to choosing the right structure and nailing down solid contracts. We’ll also clear up some common misunderstandings, share real stories of what happens when things go sideways, and show you why these steps aren’t just “nice-to-haves”—they’re MUST-HAVES.
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Sean Garner
Sean Garner is a marketing consultant and Certified StoryBrand guide dedicated to helping small business owners grow and dominate their industries. He created the Marketing Domination podcast to teach people how to combine storytelling with strategic marketing to help businesses connect with customers and stand out online.
As the official Zig Ziglar Small Business Lawyer and a Ziglar Legacy Certified Trainer, it’s no wonder that Scott Reib is known as “America’s Legal Coach.” For the last two decades, Scott has been helping business owners, entrepreneurs, and coaches “shatterproof” their businesses by implementing specific strategies for structure, growth, and protection.
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EPISODE 23 TRANSCRIPTION
Introduction
[00:00] Sean Garner: Are you confident that your business is 100% legally protected? Do you understand and have ownership in things like your trademark, corporation structure, copyrights, DBAs, all of those things? Well, in today's episode, I'm very excited to have one of my really good friends and personal attorney, Scott Reib from Reib Law. Scott is a small business attorney specializing in service-based businesses, and he’s here today to give us tons of valuable information and some best practices to ensure that the businesses we're building are set up for success. So here we go. Welcome to Marketing Domination.
[00:36] Sean Garner: All right. I am so honored to have my good friend and attorney, Scott Reib, on here with us today. Scott, I'm very thankful for you. Thank you so much for taking the time to join me here today.
[00:49] Scott Reib: Sean, thanks a lot. It's going to be fun. We always have a good time together, and I learn as much from you as I possibly could help you.
[00:57] Sean Garner: I want to start this off by laying a foundation of just some terminology, because I think with a lot of the business owners I work with in the marketing realm, they don't fully understand what some of these terms are. So I want to rapid-fire a few terms, and you can give us an overview of what these terms actually mean. Okay, the first one.
[01:20] Scott Reib: Okay.
Defining Trademark and Copyright
[01:23] Sean Garner: What is the difference between a trademark and a copyright? What’s the difference between those two terms?
[01:29] Scott Reib: Well, a trademark is an intellectual property designation, so it's something that you create that usually represents a brand name or a logo. You’ll see companies like Nike or Starbucks with trademarks, and they’ll have a circle R next to them because they've registered them with the United States Patent and Trademark Office, which makes them really official. You actually get common law trademark rights, which means that the law has it built in that if you create it and you make this your mark and you use it in commerce, then you have some rights in that mark. So if you've used marketing domination in commerce long enough, that it eventually becomes, you become marketing domination. Everyone knows you as that. And for anyone else to use something similar would cause confusion in the marketplace. Then you have some rights. Now it's harder to enforce them because you haven't registered it, but you have some rights in that. Copyright is what you would use for songs, videos, blog posts, things that are, recorded mediums, and then you would register those with the United States Copyright Office, and then no one could use those works without paying you a royalty or getting your permission. You also have common law rights for copyrights. But you can't enforce those rights at all until you've registered.
[02:54] Sean Garner: Okay. So you said the trademark is the little circle with the R. The copyright is the little circle with the C. And then what is the little circle with the TM? Is that also a trademark?
[02:57] Scott Reib: Yep. Or we'll see. Yeah, the TM is what you would use if you haven't registered or if you've applied and haven't got it back from them yet. Then you would use the TM next to it to show the world you consider that to be your trademark.
[03:15] Sean Garner: Understood. Gotcha. So the R is like the official one, but the TM means it's either in process or like, "Hey, I'm just saying that this is mine."
[03:17] Scott Reib: Yep, the official. And sometimes you'll see a circle S, which is for service mark, and that's for a service-related industry. Sometimes they'll use the circle S.
[03:31] Sean Garner: Okay, check. All right. So the next is an overview of trademarks and corporation structures. There's sole proprietor, LLC, S Corps, and stuff. And those are different, right?
Corporation Structures and Legalities
[03:45] Scott Reib: Totally different. You need both. For me, it's kind of step one A and one B. One A would be to get your corporate entity because that gives you protection. It separates your personal life from your business and gives you a liability wall. Then one B would be making sure that whatever we've named our business, we actually can own and dominate it. And the way you do that is by registering it as a trademark with the USPTO. And that's where it starts getting tricky.
[04:13] Sean Garner: Okay. And then what is a DBA? Is that separate from a trademark and your corporate structure and everything as well?
[04:21] Scott Reib: It's a separate designation, right? A DBA is "doing business as." For example, the official name of my legal entity is The Reeb Firm, PLLC. Now we have a DBA, sometimes called an assumed name, that is Reeb Law because people kept asking me, "What does The Reeb Firm do?" So I decided to get a little more specific, and we became Reeb Law. That’s a DBA, and you can also have a DBA if you're just a person. When I started my law firm, it was in a hurry. I left one firm and had to start one, so I started as The Reeb Firm as just a DBA. I was a sole proprietor, and I had a DBA on file with the county. Within a couple of months, I moved forward to get that legal entity. Then you do away with your old sole proprietorship and become an LLC, a corporation, or whatever your choice of entity is.
Common Legal Misunderstandings in Business
[05:25] Sean Garner: Okay. Awesome. So that's kind of the groundwork of these key terms, because now I want to give some common scenarios that I've seen so you can talk this through. Is this my legal disclaimer? This podcast episode does not constitute legal advice, and it's just for entertainment purposes only. But here’s what I want to see. There you go. This is my lawyer, not yours.
[05:45] Scott Reib: Yes, I am Sean's lawyer. I am not your lawyer.
[05:54] Sean Garner: I see this all the time whenever we start to build a website or something like this for some of our clients. One, they’re very confused about the differences between these terms. They have some but not the others and think because they have one, they get rights to all the others, but it doesn't work that way. So now that we know what those things are, you started talking about the process, step one A and one B, and everything to protect your business. What can you actually own? And I want you to hammer home this point because people don't understand it—just because you own one doesn’t mean you own the rest or are entitled to them.
[06:31] Scott Reib: Yeah, and let’s throw one more thing in the mix. You’ve got a URL or domain name, which is where you buy your real estate on the internet, and that’s also different than an LLC name or a trademark, right?
[06:36] Sean Garner: Yes.
Trademark vs. Domain Names
[06:53] Scott Reib: So the dominant one, the one that matters the most, is the trademark. The name you get from your state for your LLC doesn’t really matter. They approved you because nothing else in your state was, in their minds, confusingly similar, so they gave you that name. That doesn't mean that in the adjacent state someone else doesn’t have something very similar or that someone already has a trademark for that name. They don’t do that search. You have to do that search. You could own a domain name by going to GoDaddy and buying your favorite domain name. Sean and I have lots of them. Every time we have an idea, you buy one. So you've got that real estate, but that doesn’t mean you own that brand. Someone else may have already trademarked it or be using it as a common law trademark, and so they’ve got some rights in that.
[07:37] Sean Garner: That's right.
[07:51] Scott Reib: It's really complicated putting together a brand that you can own, and it's essential to do that because you don't want to get 10 years down the road and then think, "Okay, now I'm going to spend some money and trademark my brand," only to find out that you've lost out because someone else in the meantime trademarked it. Now they have rights to your brand, or someone else already had it, and you just didn't do the diligence to find out. Does that make sense?
[08:22] Sean Garner: Yeah, it does. I've worked with clients that are seven- or eight-figure revenue-generating companies, and even they missed this. They'd say, "Well, I own the domain name. My corporation is registered in, let's say, the state of Oklahoma or Texas. I own the LLC, and I went to the bank, and I even have the DBA." So they think they're good, right? But that’s not true, because the trademark, like you said, is the dominant one.
[08:30] Scott Reib: Right. Let me give you an example and I’ll change the names to protect the innocent. Let's say there's a client in Texas, a large city, operating as a plumbing company for five or six years. They went to get a permit, since you need permits for that type of plumbing work. The city issued the permit, but it went to another company.
[08:54] Sean Garner: Okay.
[09:22] Scott Reib: There were two companies—Acme Plumbing Inc. and Acme Plumbing LLC. This kind of situation shouldn't happen, but it did. The wrong company got the permit. Once they were aware that someone else was using a similar name, they hired their lawyer and sent a letter to Acme One, giving them 30 days to rebrand. They contacted their business coach, which everyone should do, and the coach advised them to get a lawyer. So they came to me. I reviewed the demand letter, checked the STPO, and verified rights. The company sending the cease-and-desist letter had been using the mark for over 20 years and had a trademark for eight years. They had dominated and owned that brand. At that point, there wasn’t much to challenge. If the client wanted to fight, it would cost around $50,000 in federal court to carve out some rights. We advised them to rebrand instead. Finding a new brand they could own outright was a better choice than a legal battle. The key factor here was that the other company had years of usage in commerce and a registered trademark, which stacked their rights—making them undefeatable. Trademark rights prioritize the first to use and first to register, giving dominance over others. Owning a URL domain isn’t a determining factor in brand ownership—it’s just online real estate. When filing for trademarks, you have to show proof of use in commerce with specimens, and they don’t accept everything; it must be legitimate business activity.
[11:50] Sean Garner: Right. So basically, anyone can get a DBA, LLC, or URL, but to truly own and protect it, you need the trademark. Now, let’s think of the opposite situation. If I own the trademark, but the domain isn’t available, for instance, if I own “Acme Plumbing” as a trademark but someone else has the URL…
[12:18] Scott Reib: Yeah.
[12:38] Sean Garner: But I go to GoDaddy now, and it’s not available on GoDaddy. Since I own the trademark, would I be able to get that domain? I know if they’re using the name publicly, I could stop them, but what if I wanted to secure that domain? Is that something I can do?
[12:51] Scott Reib: If they’ve just parked it, there’s not much you can do other than buy it. If they’re using it in commerce in a similar business class as you, then you could send a cease-and-desist letter, maybe pursue a restraining order, and potentially stop them from using it in commerce. At that point, they might be willing to let it go to avoid legal fees in a federal case.
But if it’s just parked and not being used in commerce, there’s not much you can do.
[13:23] Sean Garner: Got it. This might be a gray area, but let’s say I own "Acme Plumbing" as my trademark, and they own acmeplumbing.com. When you go to that website, it’s actually "Bob’s Plumbing," and the company is Bob’s Plumbing—they just wanted to tie up a bunch of URLs and maybe set up redirects. Can they technically do that?
[13:34] Scott Reib: Well, if "Acme Plumbing" shows up, like in a search engine result or anywhere on their page, that would still be a violation of your trademark. So unless it’s completely masked and never shows up anywhere, it could be considered infringing. But if it’s truly hidden in all aspects, then it wouldn’t infringe.
[14:06] Sean Garner: Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
[14:17] Scott Reib: There are ways to do it where it wouldn’t infringe, but if they aren’t careful, then they would be infringing.
[14:22] Sean Garner: Gotcha. So, knowing all of that, we need a trademark, an LLC or whatever corporation structure we go with, our domains for digital marketing, and possibly a DBA. Now, do you have to have a DBA if your LLC is the name you want to use, or is it just if you want to use an additional name or variation?
[14:53] Scott Reib: It’s for using an additional name for clarification. In some states, like Texas, if you’re a legal entity, then you don’t file a DBA at the county level; instead, you file an assumed name at the state level.
[14:55] Sean Garner: Gotcha.
[15:08] Scott Reib: And that’s so when you do those corporation name searches, more names appear, helping avoid issuing duplicate names.
[15:17] Sean Garner: Understood. So let’s say I’ve done everything right and I have all these set up. But in today’s world, it’s challenging to find a brand you can truly own, especially with common-use names. I’ve experienced this, and I’m sure you see it even more with clients. How would you recommend people approach creating unique brand names instead of sticking with something like Bob’s Plumbing or Acme Plumbing?
[15:39] Scott Reib: Yeah, I mean, if I only had a simple answer, right?
[15:43] Sean Garner: Variations of the name, or something creative? What’s your advice on making brand names unique?
[15:58] Scott Reib: Yeah, you have to be careful. A lot of people fall in love with a name when they’re forming their company. Try not to get too attached because the more fanciful and unrelated the name is to what you’re actually doing, the more likely you are to secure it. A great example is Apple. The trademark and logo for Apple computers is an apple, which has nothing to do with computers, phones, or technology. It’s so unrelated that it was almost certain no one else was using it in those industries, making it easy to establish the brand. But generally, people try to create names that describe what they do—especially in marketing—since they want it to be keyword-rich. That leads to issues, though, because everyone is also trying to be keyword-rich, so you end up with names that overlap. So, you really need to be as creative as possible. Solomon says there’s nothing new under the sun, and branding has shown me he was right. It’s tough, and you need an open mind to create something unique that can stand for your brand without directly describing it. Then your job as a marketer is to make that symbol represent your brand. Remember, the symbol itself isn’t the brand; it’s a representation of it.
[17:38] Sean Garner: Yeah, I get it. One thing I always tell clients when they’re naming programs or products is the story of P90X. It’s a strange name, but it’s made millions of dollars. And now I understand—it’s unique, not directly related, and still somewhat descriptive, which allowed them to own that mark.
[18:11] Scott Reib: Exactly. Like, the name of my coaching and consulting company is Shatterproof Solutions. It has nothing to do with coaching.
[18:13] Sean Garner: So, yeah, it's not like a legal, you know, "your legal coach" or something like that. It's unique to you. Okay, so in the digital marketing world we live in now, we’ve got everything set up, done everything right, gone to a web designer or a marketing agency, and we’re putting out marketing collateral. This is honestly a question for me as well since we build websites for clients all the time. What documents do they need now to protect themselves legally and avoid any open liabilities? I’m thinking of things like contracts, agreements, privacy policies, website docs—stuff like that. What do they need for that type of protection?
[19:02] Scott Reib: Yeah, so when you open up an online business or a website for your business, you definitely need terms and conditions of use, a privacy policy, and possibly disclaimers depending on what services or content you're providing. For example, if you're running any type of advertisement, a privacy policy is often required. You and I both use GoHighLevel, and if you’re using the SMS messaging in that system, you need to have a privacy policy on your website, or they won’t let you use it. So those digital documents are crucial. Then, when you move to what you’re doing directly with your customers, that’s where contracts come in. You want a solid written contract—it can be digital—that outlines your obligations to them and their obligations to you. If you’re using independent contractors, you need independent contractor agreements that clearly define the relationship, their duties, what they won’t get, and what you’re not offering them. For employees, you'll want an onboarding system with an offer letter, employment agreement, and employee handbook. If you have sensitive information, like a customer database, a confidentiality agreement is useful. Non-solicitation agreements can help, and while non-competes are allowed in some states, they’re becoming less popular and facing federal challenges. These are the core documents you should have in place, and they're all available as part of our Access Membership in the Shutterproof Vault.
Importance of Written Agreements
[21:02] Sean Garner: Okay. One thought or question I just had because of that is, at what point does it make sense—or there’s probably like a legal answer here, I guess—but at what point does it make sense to have those agreements in place? Like, most clients that we work with for physical products, I don't think you obviously need an agreement for that. Like, you're buying a t-shirt, here’s a t-shirt. But for service-based clients, at what point is there a certain level of price or value or certain exposure that they should do that? For example, do I need an agreement if I’m a dog walker versus if I’m going into somebody’s home and doing home cleaning? Do I need an agreement if I’m doing plumbing services or coaching and consulting? Is there a certain point where you need that, or does every service you provide need an agreement?
[21:51] Scott Reib: Yeah, I would say the default is you need an agreement. Let’s go down that road with dog walking. What if the leash they provide you breaks and their dog runs away, or their dog runs away and bites someone? Are you responsible for that? Well, maybe. But if we have a contract that says clearly you’re not responsible for whether the equipment they give you breaks or malfunctions, and you’re not responsible for their dog’s behavior, that’s protection. You want those kinds of things in your contract so you can’t be held liable. And there’s a clause in a contract called a limitation of liability where you would say, “I’m only liable to you for the amount you’ve paid me,” for instance. So if they’re paying you $50 to walk their dog, the most they could sue you for is $50.
[22:40] Sean Garner: So it’s more like, yes, you need it, but it’s also like, even if you don’t think you need it, why wouldn’t you have that for situations just like that?
[22:51] Scott Reib: Yeah, because it’s gotten so easy with the platforms we have now, where people can sign off on terms and conditions digitally on their tablet or phone. It’s not like you’re handing them a 10-page document they have to flip through. It’s just much easier now, so there’s very little excuse not to have it. For a lot of those services, I’d use an order form, and within that order form are my standard terms and conditions. They have to scroll through it, check a box, and say, “I agree” before I ever come to do the service.
[23:25] Sean Garner: Yeah, that's good. Cause I think that whenever we're talking about building things out, sometimes for clients, they instantly flip to like, “Then I'm going to have to print off all these contracts and hand them to people.” Yeah, in our digital world, it's easy just to have that little checkbox of terms and conditions and get yourself protected there. Now moving further down the digital marketing world here, with all this stuff set up, let’s talk more about social media and protecting yourself on social media. Give me some legal liability issues that can come up when it comes to creating content. Some of the things I’m interested in are, like, if I post something, do I actually own it? There’s a big thing now with reaction videos. You’ll see, I keep using plumbing businesses, but you’ll see a plumber looking at a video of someone doing a walk-through of their house, and he's reacting to it. If he changes it and adds his reaction, does he actually own that content? And if your customers are posting content online, do you automatically get access to it? Give me kind of the legal rundown on all things social media for businesses.
Digital Assets and Social Media Content Rights
[24:25] Scott Reib: Yeah, so general rule on that is if you post on a social media platform, you no longer own it—the social media platform now owns it. So if your customer posts something on there, if a competitor puts something on there, it would then be fair game for you to use it, comment on it, change it, modify it to suit your purposes. But if we're using Facebook as the big example, when you post it on there, they own it. So, a lot of us are doing free Facebook groups and putting content there to attract people to our funnels. Well, all that content you put on there, you no longer own. So you’d better make sure it’s something you don’t really want to charge for later because people will have free access to it. And, for that matter, Facebook could take it and start selling it.
[25:16] Sean Garner: Okay. Does that include, like—I don't know if you'd know this—but does it include all social platforms? Like, let’s say I have a digital course, and I’m hosting the videos as private videos on YouTube. Is that still the case? Because they’re technically out there in the private world, even though I’m using it as a hosting service. Do you know the rules on that one?
[25:37] Scott Reib: I haven’t reviewed Google terms and conditions lately, but my recollection is that they don’t take ownership of your IP like the other social media platforms do, probably because they’re owned by Google. But every other platform that I’m aware of, you’re at risk if you post anything on there that you’re losing your intellectual property rights. And that may be okay. It might be a fair exchange because of the exposure you’re getting.
[25:45] Sean Garner: Okay.
[26:02] Scott Reib: Just knowing is half the battle. So just know that when you post something there, you’re giving it up. It’s free, and you can still use it somewhere else and charge for it, but you’ve given up some rights. I’ve not seen it hurt anyone, but—
[26:19] Sean Garner: What about, like, on intellectual property? What if I have a framework or a methodology that I talk about on social media? Once I talk about it, does that make it open for anyone to take that training style or framework?
[26:42] Scott Reib: Well, that would be a reason to go ahead and register that framework. Create it in a PDF or similar format and register it with the United States Copyright Office. Now you’ve copyrighted it. If someone uses it, we could send a letter saying, "That’s registered copyrighted material. You can’t use it." They wouldn’t have a defense of public domain because it’s protected.
[26:58] Sean Garner: Got it. Wise advice right there. The other thing I’ve heard you talk about is website assets and building our website. This is something you educated me on, and we had to change how we do things. Explain a bit about website assets and legally protecting ownership.
Legal Risks with Website Assets
[27:30] Scott Reib: Yeah, this is big. One of my rules is don’t use other people’s intellectual property without permission. Many of us do this unintentionally. You hire a web design company or webmaster, and they pull images together to make the site look great. Six months later, you get a cease and desist letter because you infringed on some photographer’s copyright because that image wasn’t paid for. You want to make sure that you have a contract with your web team, requiring them to only use sources where you have rights to the images and documentation. Or, if they’re using a source you provide, make sure it’s something like Freepik or Dreamstime, where you can subscribe and know you have the rights to use those images across platforms. Just be aware that not all licenses are the same; if you’re using an image for a book cover, for instance, that’s different than using it for a blog or social media post.
[28:57] Sean Garner: And that’s one thing I don’t think people realize—you can’t use the excuse of, "Well, the web designer did it." The business owner is responsible. It doesn’t matter what the social media manager or content creator or website designer does; the business owner is the one liable.
[29:05] Scott Reib: Yeah, you could build into the contract that they have to indemnify you. So when you get that demand letter and have to settle for, say, $2,000 per image, you could go to them and say, “You owe us $2,000 per image.” But the better way is just to make sure there’s nothing on your site that you don’t have permission to use and that you can prove it. There’s no “oops” defense. You can’t say it was an accident.
[29:34] Sean Garner: Okay.
[29:39] Scott Reib: Sometimes, all someone cares about is pulling it down, but that’s rare. Most people want money. There are groups of lawyers that only handle copyright infringement cases. They use bots to search the web for unauthorized use of photographs, which are all identifiable, and then start sending out letters. It’s easy money because they’ve got you, and you’re going to pay something because no one wants to go to court to fight about something they can’t win. So it’s very lucrative, and photographers have rights. You shouldn’t be able to use their photos without compensation, but many people do it unintentionally.
[30:30] Sean Garner: And wasn’t it you who was saying that there’s also a group doing the same thing with accessibility, like having alt text and such on images?
[30:37] Scott Reib: Yeah. That’s a new and growing cottage industry for lawyers, and even some people with disabilities are using it to their advantage. They’re looking for sites without alt text, that aren’t accessible, and don’t meet standards. They work with a lawyer to take those issues to court and get a piece of the action.
[31:08] Sean Garner: Another question: what if you take an image that isn’t royalty-free but then modify it? Like, let’s say there’s a beautiful background picture, and I add my logo, some filters, and make adjustments in Photoshop. Can I use it because it’s been changed, or is it still a problem since it’s a modification of protected content?
[31:44] Scott Reib: Yeah, you're getting into some pretty advanced stuff there. That would be considered a derivative work. It might have some copyright protection of its own, but generally, the underlying work would still be entitled to some sort of royalty. An example of that would be if you’re writing a song and take someone else’s melody, adding all new words—it’s not a new song; it’s just new words. You’d have to compensate them for the melody. If you just use one measure of their song, that’s kind of fair use, and no one complains. But when you use the whole thing, you have a problem. There’s a lot of litigation about this, especially in the music industry.
[32:37] Sean Garner: I’ve noticed that on Canva, for example. We use it for quick royalty-free images and have the Canva Pro account, but they won’t allow you to just export images without making changes. You have to add something or modify it a little before downloading. I assume there was some lawsuit or legal reason behind that, because it’s new—they didn’t do that before.
[32:55] Scott Reib: Yeah.
[33:07] Sean Garner: It just happened recently. I was pulling images to throw into a template, and it stopped me. So, yeah. Staying on the social media topic, certain industries matter more when it comes to giving advice online, like yours or the financial industry. In Courtney’s medical practice, for instance, what if she’s giving health tips online? How can she protect herself? Or if you're giving legal tips, is there anything that needs to be done to prevent someone from coming after you? Or is it known that when it’s on social media, it’s for entertainment only?
[34:05] Scott Reib: Yeah, they should know that. There's definitely some gray area, and there's some risk that we all take when we go online as professionals and talk about things that are advice-like, because someone could take it and run with it. The disclaimer we did at the start of the show is generally how I handle it—I'm a lawyer, not your lawyer. You can put disclaimers at the top of your pages on Facebook, Instagram, and those types of platforms. Then, you just need to follow your industry standards.
A lot of active marketers are taking a "forgiveness is easier than permission" approach, just putting themselves out there. If we mess up, then...
[34:56] Sean Garner: Yeah, yeah.
[35:00] Scott Reib: ...we deal with it, because it’s too costly and slows you down too much to do everything perfectly by the book regarding marketing regulations, especially for medical, financial, or legal fields. Financial seems to have it the worst; they can’t do almost anything without getting approval. Whether that's actually true or they just have them scared to death, I don’t know. But when I’ve worked with people in those fields, even suggesting some ideas, they’ll say, “We can’t do that.” So, it’s really about your comfort level, your risk tolerance, and what time you have to create a disclaimer without damaging your message.
[35:42] Sean Garner: What?
[35:58] Scott Reib: If the marketing message gets destroyed, it’s pointless.
[36:01] Sean Garner: And especially in the financial sector, we have several clients in investment firms or financial planning, and when we send out email marketing, we have to run everything through spam checkers. Anything that suggests a monetary promise or possibility gets flagged, and Google won't even allow it. They’re super strict.
[36:37] Scott Reib: Yeah, and I’d say you need to know your industry and not rely on marketing people to understand those boundaries. Marketing’s job is to get leads into your business, not to ensure compliance with your standards. It’s your job to protect yourself, not the marketing guy’s.
[36:47] Sean Garner: Yeah. Yes, get a Scott and get a Sean. Don’t trust just a Sean. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get the business. Thankfully, I’ve got a good relationship with you where I learn this stuff, and clients will ask for things. I’ll say, “I’m not a lawyer, but mine would tell me I can’t do that.” So if your lawyer tells you it’s okay, I’ll do it, but otherwise, I won’t. So, thinking about that, on that note...
[37:03] Scott Reib: Yeah.
[37:24] Sean Garner: You’ve done this for a long time and worked with so many small business owners. What are some of the most common places where you see they’re leaving themselves open and exposed to risks—those easy fixes? Not necessarily big issues, but little things, like in faith, where a small foothold can lead to bigger problems. What do you see happening with these businesses?
Essential Legal Tips for Small Businesses
[37:51] Scott Reib: Yeah, you’ve really walked right through them, Sean. They don’t own their brand because they haven’t taken the time to do it. They aren’t using written contracts or agreements. They aren’t being careful about intellectual property use, and that gets them into trouble. Those three things come up repeatedly, and they’re pretty easy to fix. The branding part takes time, but once we know what we’re protecting, the process isn’t rocket science. One of my favorite books, The E-Myth Revisited, talks about the entrepreneurial seizure when we start businesses. We get busy being busy and skip steps, creating these problems. We don’t intend to do it wrong; we just want to get money in the door, so we skip the contract and go with a handshake. Someone came in today not getting paid for work they did. They want to send a demand letter, so I asked for the written agreement, and they said the other party didn’t sign it due to technology issues. Don’t do that. If you need to, print paper and get something signed. The fourth thing I’ll add is: stay in your lane. Figure out what services you’re going to provide and don’t jump into something new just because it seems profitable. If you’re going to offer something new, do the research, get prepared, and then go to market. It’s like changing lanes on the highway without looking—you’re bound to get hit. Once you venture into something that seems adjacent, there’s often something you didn’t understand about it. That’s what bites you. Your pristine image is gone because of a project you took on for $10,000, which ends up costing you $100,000 because of mistakes.
[40:20] Sean Garner: Yeah. So let's say I've listened to this, and maybe I’m getting ready to start my business, or I’ve been in business for 10 plus years, and I’m realizing I don’t have some of this stuff. I want you to talk about how you do small business law differently. Because most people, if they’re thinking about this, they’re probably juggling, like, “Okay, I know I need to do this stuff, but I know lawyers are super expensive. So it’s going to be…”
[40:31] Scott Reib: Yeah.
[40:47] Sean Garner: …tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of legal fees to get these problems set up. Talk to them and explain to everybody what I love—the access plan and what you guys do with your legal services and how it’s different than most other attorneys.
[41:05] Scott Reib: Yeah, so 12 years ago, I discovered I had a problem. I had repeat business. Small business owners were coming to me with the same problem over and over. And it’s like, “Why aren’t you coming to me and asking for the contract before you do the deal? Why don’t you have me review the contract before you do the deal?” And it came down to the way lawyers bill. Lawyers traditionally bill by the hour, really by the minute. So they’d think of a lawyer and imagine money flying out of their pocket. They’d call their mom, Google it—do anything rather than call me. So I hired a business coach, and we created what’s now called the access plan. My vision was an on-demand system where people like me could ask any question to their lawyer, have contracts reviewed, have branding discussions, and make sure they’re keeping their business between the legal lines in an affordable way. We created a subscription with four levels. We divide it by revenue, but we don’t check your books. If you’re a startup, you’re at our launch level, which is for zero to $250,000, starting at $425 a month. You get your LLC structure—what we call your Shutterproof Enterprise structure—designed and built, if you’re ready. You also get your main contract done, monthly calls with me as your legal coach, and SOS calls. So when you’re in a meeting, and things fall apart, you have text, email, and phone access to your legal team for $425 a month. As you grow, we go up the scale to our top level, Guardian, where we’re talking about succession planning, legacy planning, making sure we have estate plans created. At that level, you’re approaching a turnkey business, and you’re acting more as the owner rather than wearing all the hats.
[42:59] Sean Garner: Yeah. And I want everyone to realize the value of that. This isn’t just like a LegalZoom where you’re talking to some AI bot and getting recommended help articles. You get full access to Reeb Law and the team there.
[43:00] Scott Reib: We do.
[43:24] Sean Garner: Almost like it’s on demand, for a fraction of the cost of what a normal attorney would charge just for their hourly fee.
[43:33] Scott Reib: Yeah, lawyers with my experience level are around $500 to $600 an hour right now. So for less than an hour of my time, you get access to the team for all those things. We’ve worked hard to scale this in a way that gives access to the “little guy” so they’re not locked out of this game. Every Fortune 500 company has tons of lawyers on call. They can ask questions anytime, but small business owners with the same problems have been locked out of it. We fixed that. Yes, you still have to pay, but we’re talking about less than $5,000 a year to know you have a lawyer on call, that your entity structure is intact, you have legal documents to minimize problems, and if you get into a problem, you have someone to help resolve it before it goes to litigation. To me, it’s a no-brainer. There are other lawyers across the nation who do similar things, but most are at a high monthly rate. We’ve kept it down purposely because I like working with small business owners, especially service professionals. It’s been a 12-year overnight success, and we’re having a great time with it. I get to work with people like Sean every day. We do monthly calls, and we want you to use this service. Our job on that call is to find ways to support you within your plan.
Protect Your Business NOW
[45:11] Sean Garner: In marketing, we talk all the time about a no-brainer offer, and this really is one. So let’s say I’ve heard all this, I want to get connected with Scott—where do people need to go to connect with you, hear more about the access plan, and everything you have going on?
[45:28] Scott Reib: Yeah, go to reblaw.com/access. There’s a video at the top explaining more about the plans, and as you scroll down, you’ll see the four levels. Just figure out where you think you fit, hit the button, and it will put you on my calendar. I’ll ask you questions about your business, and you’ll get a feel for us. If it’s a fit, then you’ll sign our digital agreement and become an access member.
[45:58] Sean Garner: So we’ll make sure that’s down in the description—all things reblaw.com/access. And you have a podcast and everything as well. Is there a place where people can get connected with you and learn more about what you do? I know you have an amazing book.
[46:14] Scott Reib: Yep, we got the book.
[46:16] Sean Garner: Just redid my bookcase—you gotta get the book! The Shatterproof Entrepreneur: Building an Unbreakable Business Legacy. Where can people get the book, connect with you on social media, or listen to the podcast?
[46:20] Scott Reib: Yeah, go to amazon.com for the book. It’s $9.99—we’re not trying to make a bunch of money with it. I want you to learn the six shatterproof phases so you can have a better business. We’re working on a workbook that’ll be live soon, and a video course coming in the next month. One of the best places to find me is on Instagram, at TheScottReib. We release legal tips and podcast episodes almost daily. If there’s something specific you want to know, go to @TheScottReib, send me a message, and ask your question—I might even answer it on the podcast.
[47:07] Sean Garner: Awesome. Well, Mr. Scott Reib, thank you so much, brother. Amazing man of God, amazing husband, father, awesome lawyer, and even better friend. I’m honored to have you in my life, man. Thank you for taking the time to come hang out.
[47:22] Scott Reib: Sean, it’s been awesome. Thanks for having me.
[47:23] Sean Garner: I hope you guys took tons of value from that episode and take Scott Reib up on that offer. Go to his website, check it out, and sign up for a call. Too many small business owners leave themselves open to vulnerabilities they don’t even think of, so make sure you sign up for that call with him. Also, if you want to see where your marketing vulnerabilities are, go to SeanGarner.co/marketingreport and take your free marketing assessment. We’ll dive into your marketing, show you some blind spots, and give you ways to improve so you stand out online. Thanks so much for watching, guys. Have an awesome day.
